How can today’s workplace leaders tackle the ever-important wellness component of work that works? Like all the other components of a modern workplace, there is no one-size-fits-all approach. In the latest episode of Work that Works, OBA President Charlene Theodore sits down with lawyer, Catherine Shearer (host of the Happy Lawyer Podcast) to discuss the varied yet practical ways lawyers and their employers can work together to help bring more happiness to the practice of law and legal workplaces. The episode qualifies for 45 minutes of professionalism hours.
RESOURCES
The Virtual Mentor: Recalibrate and Reconnect
Elevating Morale and Fostering Resilience in Today’s Climate
Strengthen Your Leadership Skills with Emotional Intelligence
Additional programs from the OBA Mindful Lawyer CPD Series
Have feedback? Email us at pod@oba.org with your thoughts and comments.
Charlene Theodore:
Hello, and welcome to the Work that Works podcast. I'm your host, Charlene Theodore. Before I begin, I want to acknowledge that I'm recording this episode from the Dish With One Spoon territory. I'm grateful to the original owners for taking care of this land. And I recognize the treaties that govern it. Knowing that our listeners span the country and are tuning in from other areas with their own treaties and unceded territories, I encourage you to continue learning more about the indigenous history in your community. It is important history and a story that continues.
Speaker 2:
At Lawyers Financial, your satisfaction is our success. It's not that money doesn't matter. Financial. It's right there in our name. But we're not-for-profit. And that gives us the freedom to give you break even pricing on insurance and investment solutions. And exclusive rates on home, auto, life, and disability insurance, just to name a few. At Lawyers Financial, we focus on you so you can focus on your family, your firm, and your future. And that sounds like success by any measure.
Charlene Theodore:
If you Google the phrase words to describe a lawyer, you'll hit upon a page that lists over 1,000 adjectives. Take that page, sort those adjectives by frequency. And you'll see atop your screen tough and successful, words like brilliant and shrewd, erudite and honest. Inevitably, you'll also find some less flattering descriptors such as [inaudible 00:01:57] and arrogant. What you won't find on that list however, is the word happy. Why not? Why is that? And what can we do to make legal practice and happiness synonymous with each other?
Charlene Theodore:
I'm OBA president Charlene Theodore. And this is the Work that Works podcast. I'm joined today by Catherine Shearer, who in addition to being an experienced personal injury lawyer at McKenzie Lake Lawyers is the founder and host of the Happy Lawyer podcast. With her very perceptive podcast, she is shining a light on some of the serious mental health and attrition issues faced by the legal profession. And just like we're trying to do with this podcast, she's sharing ideas about how to bring greater balance, wellness, and satisfaction to our work.
Charlene Theodore:
Now, I know Catherine has mined lots of useful information from her interviews and her own experience. And by her own example, she proves that happy lawyer is no oxymoron. So I'm very excited to dive in to discover her regularly refined recipe for health and happiness at work. Welcome Catherine, thanks for joining us.
Catherine Shearer:
Thank you so much for having me.
Charlene Theodore:
Okay. So let's start big picture and then move into some of the specifics for our listeners, and give them some tips. So tell me Catherine, why do you think happy lawyers make better law?
Catherine Shearer:
A happy lawyer makes a better lawyer because they're well-rounded. They're easier able to adapt to stress. And when you are happy, it means that you like the work that you're doing. It means that you're going to be more productive. And in the end, that usually leads to more profitability as well. And there are a number of studies that have been completed. I think Shawn Achor, the author of The Happiness Advantage has done a number of studies into that, which show happier people, increased profits.
Charlene Theodore:
Now I know a little bit about your background, and I know that you've said that it was your own reckoning with the legal profession that prompted you to launch your own podcast, the Happy Lawyer podcast. I'm just wondering if you can maybe in your own words, just specifically explain to us what it was that had you reconsidering whether a career in law was really for you. What brought you to that place?
Catherine Shearer:
Yeah. So there was actually a lot going on that kind of led me to that place. The first was kind of the experience that I had at the first firm that I had ever worked at. And that was more cultural I think, in terms of why I didn't like or why I thought I didn't like my position. And what had happened is I just found that I was very stressed and anxious from the whole experience and felt a little bit in over my head. And I was also living in a city at the time that was unfamiliar to me. I didn't know a lot of people. And I was pretty far away from my family, and I had been for a number of years. So that led me to want to change firms, which I did. And I went back to my hometown.
Catherine Shearer:
And part of that process was dealing with pigeonholing myself very early on in a career. So I was practicing plaintiff only personal injury. And after a couple of years I think articling, and then first year as an associate, I wasn't sure if that's really where I wanted to be. And I started to doubt pigeonholing myself into that so early on in my career. And I ended up taking a position in general litigation.
Catherine Shearer:
It turns out I absolutely hated that. So it took only a couple of months. It was only a couple of months doing the general litigation. I was like, "Man, I really hate this." And that's when I realized I really identified was very passionate about plaintiff injury work. So I had made that decision at that point, but I had landed myself at a firm that did not practice any personal injury law. So then I decided I'll just start own practice within this firm and ease into it slowly, build it up, and I'll have that experience. And then we'll have this practice and I get to do what I want while getting some experience doing some other things.
Catherine Shearer:
That grew very, very quickly. More quickly than I could have anticipated. And that's kind of when the problem started. So while I was at a firm that I really liked and I loved all the people that I worked with, it really wasn't set up for a personal injury practice. And I was having to do all of the accounting side of things, because nobody at the firm understood the accounting aspects to it. There weren't any clerks that were familiar with the personal injury law. So I was doing a lot of that work, plus all the file work. Plus all of this was happening very, very quickly. And when you practice on contingency, you're obviously not making any money at that time either.
Catherine Shearer:
So all of these things kind of evolved at once. And I was starting to get very, very stressed, very anxious. Things weren't very organized. And I was starting to deal with a significant amount of stress. Because I knew what I wanted to do. But on the flip side, it wasn't working the way that I was doing it. But I didn't fully understand that at the same time I was having some health issues.
Charlene Theodore:
So let me just interject there. So what it sounds like you're telling me is that you realized through that kind of trial and error process, and I think it's sometimes just as important to know what we don't want to do when we're trying to find our path in our career. So when you realized that it was not law as a career you were unhappy with, but just the way that you were trying to set up your practice, the way in which you were practicing, how did you kind of change that narrative for yourself? Who was the community that you turned to at that time?
Catherine Shearer:
Yeah, so that's a really great question. So for me, because I had all of this stuff going on and I realized that it just wasn't working, I kind of reached out to my network to explore what some of my other options might be because I knew what I was doing wasn't sustainable from a practice or a health perspective. So I reached out to some of my network and I did end up making the move to a different firm. And even when I was at that new firm that really supported an injury practice and things were going well, I was still having these doubts as to whether or not law was for me. I was still dealing with some anxiety and some stress and the underlying health condition.
Catherine Shearer:
So at that time, I did reach out to a social worker that was previously a lawyer, and walked through some of the issues that I was having. And he really helped me identify the fact that I absolutely loved my job. But it was clear from the way that I had been practicing that it wasn't working, and that was contributing to my stress. And I thought, "Well you know what, you're right. I'm really struggling health-wise with an autoimmune disorder and stress is a very big trigger for that. I need to figure out how to get healthy and maintain my health." And then that's kind of when everything came together is when I was able to heal my underlying condition and get on the right medications, and learn how important it is to really manage stress. That's when things came together with the practice and the new firm. And the rest is history.
Charlene Theodore:
Yeah. And I know you talk, there's probably several of our listeners who are well tuned in with your podcast. But for those who haven't heard of it, I find it really interesting that I guess through trial and error, you were able to kind of figure out what was going on in the practice side. While at the same time, it doesn't seem like you could really move forward with the practice until you addressed the health issues that you're referring to. Do you want to maybe elaborate a little bit on what was going on with you health-wise and how it connected so closely with your ability to do your best work?
Catherine Shearer:
Yeah, absolutely. It is something that's really, it was really affecting my ability to do my best work and to show up, and to be there for my clients, and for my colleagues in that matter as well, and staff actually. So during the time when things started to get very, very stressful before I had identified that I needed to make a move to help address some of the stress that I was experiencing, I had gone to a number of doctors' appointments. And they had actually identified that I had abnormal thyroid mumps and lymph nodes. So they were actually investigating to determine if I had cancer at the time, which was very startling for me because a couple of years prior to that, my mom actually had stage IV thyroid cancer. So I knew that I was at a heightened risk because it was in the family, and then they're doing all of these investigations.
Catherine Shearer:
Through that process, it actually turned out that I didn't have cancer. Thank goodness. I had an autoimmune disorder called Hashimoto syndrome. And that is a thyroid condition that your body attacks your thyroid and destroys it. And that causes you to have hypothyroidism. So the symptoms of hypothyroidism include extreme fatigue, depression, not feeling well in general, sleeping a lot, having almost no energy. So on top of all of the things that I needed to do to get my practice up and going and continuing to move it forward, I was also struggling with having absolutely no energy and feeling awful every single day.
Catherine Shearer:
So once I was able to identify what the cause of these feelings, and it wasn't simply just stress. Which I can tell you, I must've gone to a handful of doctors that told me there was absolutely nothing wrong with me. I was just experiencing stress. And while I understood I was stressed and anxious, I knew that there was something else going on as well. And once I figured that out, once I got on some medication and brought my thyroid hormone levels to normal, it was night and day. And then knowing that I needed to take care of myself to prevent any further flares, to monitor the destruction, and to stay healthy, to stay balanced, made a huge difference.
Charlene Theodore:
I think you said something so important there. Because whether it's your particular health issue that people are struggling with, whether it's cancer, whether it's just the physical manifestation of stress, we're in a high pressure profession. And I think what I like about how you chose to really not just pay attention to it, but to share your story is just so profound. Certainly more common that we talk about these things now. But when you started your podcast, it wasn't as common. And I liked that you chose to be able to share not just your story, but also your solutions. And one of the reasons I love the podcast is because you don't just talk about your story. You've expanded it to talk about why women feel stuck in law, turnover and onboarding, impostor syndrome, the importance of sleep, which we don't talk enough about in our profession. And even things like unconscious bias and actually encouraging women to take a mat leave.
Charlene Theodore:
You've talked to so many different types of people on your podcast, and there's so many good lessons there. What are some of the things that you seen that have actually maybe surprised you, or a guest that's offered a real kind of light bulb moment for you?
Catherine Shearer:
Yeah. You know what? There's actually been a ton of them. So it's difficult to pair it down to one. But I can think of at least one episode that has really resonated with me. And I think it's just because of the stage that I'm in with my life right now. But I had a former mentor of mine in on the podcast. And she's been practicing for over 30 years. And she was experiencing similar things when she was a younger lawyer and had a young family. Now she had three kids, and she didn't take very long for her mat leaves, and managed through those difficult years. And me being in that stage right now with an 18 month old son and relearning how to practice with a child especially during COVID. So learning to practice, and shifting your hours, and trying to juggle all of those balls. It's challenging. It really is tough. And some days it's very difficult, and some days it's very easy. But hearing her story about how she overcame those things and how it was just a temporary phase in her career, and it didn't have any long lasting or any negative impacts really at all, and came through was really important. Because that's something that really resonates with me right now.
Catherine Shearer:
But one of the other really important messages that I think is there in almost every episode is how the legal career for most people isn't a straight line. Oftentimes, at least this is my experience. You come out of law school and you article at the best firm that you can get into. And then you article and you work your little butt off. And then you get hired back, and then you continue to just grind it out until you make partner. And then, you've made partner, and life is great.
Catherine Shearer:
It turns out that's not been my experience and almost every single guest on the podcast, that hasn't been their experience either. And there are detours throughout the course of their career. And it's not a straight line. There is a pivot left and a pivot right. And then it's up, and then it's down, and then it's left, and then it's right. And eventually they find what either works for them, or they come to the decision that law isn't for them. But what I have realized is that very few careers are just one straight trajectory.
Charlene Theodore:
I completely agree with you. My career certainly wasn't a straight line either. And I think that's because I went to law school as a mature student. And I really kind of had not just my own vision for the type of life I wanted in law, even if I didn't know how that would translate into a specific career. But I also kind of didn't have a lot of fear around the messages that we get starting in law school about what that line is supposed to be. And I was just really curious, and followed my instincts, and took opportunities that excited me and kind of ended up where I am now. Which is really very happy with my career.
Charlene Theodore:
I wonder if you have any thoughts on in this day and age where thinking as in-house counsel, the profession has changed so much. Your typical in-house counsel has changed. There's so many more in-house counsel roles. There's so many different paths and avenues to take your profession. I wonder why you think that message of that straight line, not just a straight line, but one straight line, articling, to private practice, to partner, why that's still out there and where it's coming from.
Catherine Shearer:
I think that's a great question. And I really do think that in recent generation, we are starting to see that change. So it's becoming more prevalent that people are rejecting that notion that it has to be a straight line. And some people are coming to that early on and making good career choices for themselves, just like you did. But a lot of us including myself didn't have that foresight at the beginning of a career.
Catherine Shearer:
I knew nothing about law. I don't come from a family with lawyers. I had no idea what it was like even inside of a law firm. All I knew is what I was told in law school. And it's basically you get the articling job, you work really hard, you become partner, and that's the way law works. And nobody questioned that. So at the time, even if someone had told me otherwise, I probably wouldn't have listened because that was the message that I got.
Charlene Theodore:
Exactly, exactly. Because I think that messaging is coming in. And I think the people that it's impacting most is young lawyers. I agree with you. I think that's still the messaging in law school. But I also think that podcasts like yours and the fact that you're connected with the legal communities is really helping to change that narrative.
Catherine Shearer:
Absolutely. I do think that there is a lot more awareness of it now. And people are starting to tune in more to their values and how important aligning their career with their values really is.
Charlene Theodore:
100%. Catherine, as I said before, it's no secret that we are in a high pressure profession, as part of the job is dealing with people in conflict and working with people that are coming to you at especially significant moments either in their personal lives, or in their own businesses. And there is a high incidence of anxiety, depression, and addiction within the legal profession that's well-documented. The OBA started a campaign a few years ago that continues to this day, and it was all about encouraging people to have more open conversations about depression, anxiety, addiction, and all of those related issues that are kind of at the core of our profession that affect a lot of people in different ways.
Charlene Theodore:
I wonder in your specific area of practice, you're a personal injury lawyer. So on the plaintiff's side, you're going to be representing people who are in great distress who've probably just gone through something very traumatic and have just maybe experiencing life altering circumstances. How do you create boundaries that allow empathy for your clients so you can understand what they're going through and represent them to the best of your ability, but also keep carrying that weight of the turmoil that they're going through out of your personal time?
Catherine Shearer:
That's something that I still struggle with. For the regular clients, you see a lot of people who've gone through very tragic incidents. And at this point, I'm very good at putting up the wall and making that distinction between your life and my life. The ones that I still have a hard time with are children's injuries and the death of a spouse when there's young children involved. Or a severely traumatic brain injury when there's young children involved as well, because those ones hit really close to home for me. And I can put myself into those shoes, or a birth trauma, that kind of thing. Those ones are hard for me to separate because I do become very emotionally involved.
Catherine Shearer:
On the flip side, I do think that that helps me to become a very good advocate on their behalf because I am very passionate about those situations as well. And over time, you get to see the healing of the family, and you're part of that. So that's really healing as well. So that the next time it comes around, you know how better to deal with that situation. The distinction there is it's easier with time.
Catherine Shearer:
The thing that I actually struggle the most with is dealing with a lot of my clients, especially after a traumatic brain injury, they develop substance abuse issues and significant mental health issues. And sometimes, often, not just sometimes, your clients whether or not they have capacity or not, they tend to lash out at you in terms of venting and just somewhere to put the anger and the resentment towards what has happened to them. So you can end up getting a lot of difficult to digest emails, or phone calls, or voicemails. And that is still one of the biggest challenges I face, because I do take that very personally. And it upsets me to my core if someone else is that upset.
Catherine Shearer:
So the way that I have dealt with that and continue to deal with that is to make sure we always have a mental health professional on the rehab team. So when those instances happen, we can kind of shift the conversation to be at least the three of us to kind of deal with what's going on, set up an extra treatment appointment so that my client has the appropriate outlet. Because 99.9% of the time, it's not actually me or anyone on our team that has actually done anything. It's just they're venting, and they need the proper channels for it.
Charlene Theodore:
I wonder if you have any tips or advice to give people who are perhaps starting out in either personal injury, or dealing with a population that has a high incidence of mental health issues. Whether you're working with high-risk clients in family law, lawyers who are working for the Office of the Children's Lawyer. Do you have any tips for people who are just starting out in that area specifically about how they can safeguard their own mental health within a stressful environment?
Catherine Shearer:
It can be very difficult, because you become so involved in the cases. And I think some of the best things that you can do is to really listen to what your clients in that time might be saying. Because oftentimes, they really just want to feel like they're being heard, and are over sensitive to that fact. So perhaps you don't respond to an email fast enough. Well it might be your typical response time. They can feel slighted by that. So just making sure that you have really strong communication between yourself and your clients, especially in those higher risk categories to ensure that they feel heard and understood goes a long way for lawyer client relationships, and can prevent some of the stresses that comes along with that. Because if you have a client who is upset, it's very, very stressful for you. And you are always in the back of your mind thinking, "Did I do something wrong? Did I do something so wrong that it's reportable?" These questions start to go off in your mind. And that can be very, very stressful. And in turn, start to negatively impact your performance and your practice. Managing those things before they happen and just maintaining really good client communication goes a long way in helping safeguard some of those feelings.
Charlene Theodore:
So why don't we turn now to how law firm owners and lawyers who manage and supervise employees can really put some great practices in place to kind of safeguard their own employees' wellness and mental health? So Catherine, based on your experience either in the workplace or some of the things that you've gone through as a lawyer, or even some of the people and the legal leaders that you've talked to in your podcast, what are some tips that you can offer, good examples that you've seen where workplaces are really effectively promoting or supporting mental health and mental wellness among their staff?
Catherine Shearer:
Yeah, that's really interesting. Because I think it's difficult to really have broad policy that's going to help address some of these things. Obviously at the firm level, you need to create and have a culture where people feel accepted and safe. So employees need to feel safe enough to talk about some of the problems that they're facing. Because if they don't, these are never going to be addressed. And what's either going to happen is they're either going to quit the law firm, they're going to quit practice, or silently suffer for a very long time and continue to have maybe worsening mental health issues. So creating a culture where it's safe for people to talk about these issues is important, but it's also difficult. And what that looks like in the context of each firm is probably going to be different.
Catherine Shearer:
On a broader spectrum, the options are difficult. But when we're looking at individuals, the key I think for all lawyers and all law firms is to remain flexible. Because what's going to be good and promote my mental health and wellbeing, therefore ensuring that I have a flourishing practice, is going to be different from what's going to work for you or your neighbor to your right and your neighbor to your left. So law firms need to remember that, and to be flexible, and have that person incorporated into the solution. So if they raise the flag and say, "Something's going on here," they need to also be part of the conversation on how to fix it. And those fixes are going to look different across the board.
Charlene Theodore:
I think that brand new lawyers, and we've talked about this earlier in the conversation. They often suffer from imposter syndrome and some self-doubt when they enter the workplace as brand new or junior lawyers. While acknowledging that it's going to look for everybody, are there any tweaks that you would recommend that employers can take in the onboarding process for new junior council to make new hires feel more welcome and really set them on a path towards success? And more importantly, signal that this is a workplace where we want to balance your wellness with our own productivity goals.
Catherine Shearer:
Yes. I think that's really important, especially for that associate who is in the first one to three years. Because that is a really, really difficult time for all the lawyers. You're fresh out of law school. Your autonomy is no longer present. Your time is no longer your own. And to be quite frank, you really don't know what you're doing.
Catherine Shearer:
And on top of that, we see a real gap in the mentorship programs inside law firms, formal or informal. At the end of the day, it's common that, "I'm a busy lawyer with a busy practice, and here is the work I'm assigning to you. Get it done and bring it back to me." And there's no real mentorship. And I think that's one of the issues that needs to be addressed to have new lawyers feel more included, and more welcomed, and onboarded is to ensure that there is some level of mentorship occurring. Formal or informal, the person you work with or not, again a safe place to deal with the issues that are going on.
Catherine Shearer:
But also, learning the skills that you need to learn. So being invited if you're in a litigation rotation to discoveries, and pretrials, and motions, so that you are getting those learning experiences. Because just watching is really important. And oftentimes, we see with those new associates it's here's the memo I need, and that's it. So making sure that there's a mentorship on two levels, one for the work and one for just inclusion. But also again, identifying what that person's unique needs might be. Because it is going to be different for every single person that comes along.
Charlene Theodore:
Yeah. And I think that vice is so important just full stop. But it's even more important now because we are onboarding in every industry, including our profession, we're onboarding people virtually. And I think it can't be understated how important it is to remain engaged and just check in with your younger staff and your newer staff. And check in not just about work, but to have some sort of system whether it's a managing partner or a senior lawyer to kind of set the expectations about what mentoring means now when people are working in isolation and people are working during COVID.
Charlene Theodore:
Moving forward, I don't think the working from home aspect is going to completely disappear anytime soon. So we're going to be looking at lawyers who may have been onboarded remotely at year one. And in between year two to three, they still may not be working in person with some key contacts in the firm. So I think it's so important even now for people to adopt what you're suggesting and to have a more fulsome check-in and mentoring relationship both when it comes to work. And when it comes to just saying you're part of the team and how are you doing?
Catherine Shearer:
I really, really, really wholeheartedly agree with that. Because at the end of the day, everyone wants to feel valued and included. And if people aren't feeling valued and included, that's when the breakdown happens between you and your colleagues or you and the firm. And that's when you start to have that mindset shift from inclusiveness, and contributing, and doing your job to poor me, poor me, poor me.
Charlene Theodore:
Yes, exactly.
Catherine Shearer:
And when that happens, you're sure to leave soon.
Charlene Theodore:
Yeah. They disengage. The work may be getting done, but they've kind of checked out emotionally, and there's no sense of ownership. This is my workplace. This is my firm. I'm making a contribution here.
Charlene Theodore:
There's another issue I've been really interested in Catherine. I'd love to get your thoughts on it. We've heard reports in the news about the rate of attrition from women in the workplace overall. I haven't seen statistics for our profession specifically, but what we do know is that women are leaving the profession at historic rates because of COVID. And it's linked to a couple of things. It's linked to people just generally losing their jobs during this time. And it's also strongly linked to childcare issues. I would love to know your thoughts about how employers can better connect with the women in their workforce to provide them the supports that they need if they're struggling in a way that is different from their male employees during this time.
Catherine Shearer:
Yes, absolutely. We see that especially with childcare and caring for elderly parents.
Charlene Theodore:
Yes.
Catherine Shearer:
Especially during COVID because of the nursing home crisis, a lot of people have taken their aging parents home to try and protect them. But then they also require a very high level of care while trying to maintain their employment. And that is a significant challenge. And I think the real answer to that is just flexibility, flexibility, flexibility. You have to be willing to bend to a point, obviously not to the point of breaking, but to allow considerations for those employees who might be taking on those roles, especially during a pandemic, and not be in fear of losing their job. Because that's only going to add stress to the situation. But if you know and you've had an open and honest conversation with your employer and they're willing to work with you through the situation and you feel secure in your position, you're going to ensure that you're giving it your best, and your best might mean maybe part-time. Or it might mean having to work extra in the evenings and early mornings when your child has gone to sleep or your elderly parent has gone to sleep. Knowing that it is temporary. But having that fear of simply losing your job because you haven't hit your billable target is a really big issue that can cause so much stress. There are anecdotes of people just quitting before having that conversation with their employees.
Charlene Theodore:
Exactly, exactly, exactly. And that's my concern. So at the OBA, what we're doing to provide some supports as we develop our Women Lawyers Forum developed an online community group for community and human connection, and then also providing resources. And it's our parent and caregiver network. But I want to pick up a little bit on what you said about people just leaving under circumstances of extreme stress and not feeling that there is a work environment or workplace culture that would support them saying, "Hey. Look, I need some supports here." Whether it's with respect to workload, whether it's with respect to non-billable responsibilities, needing time off, or having to adjust what their deliverables look like. Have you seen any good examples of outreach in workplaces that really promote and support having that open dialogue before people feel like they have to quit? And even outreach with respect to really supporting parental leaves, caregiver leave, personal leaves as employers.
Catherine Shearer:
That's a difficult one. Because there are so many different situations where that can apply. And each firm obviously handles things very differently. Things that can be done to kind of foster these conversations is at the partnership level, it needs to be decided well in advance of any of these issues coming up, how you're going to deal with these situations should they come up. And pre-COVID, we all knew about the possibility of parental leaves, and maternity leaves, and stress leaves. So the firm needs to have a plan on how to deal with those and how to help promote their staff for those issues. In terms of COVID, I mean that's really leveled everything up. And I think all of the firms have kind of dealt with that differently. But at least from the firms that I'm aware of, they have been very flexible in the arrangements trying to deal with that.
Catherine Shearer:
Now that's not all firms, and some firms will just say, "You're not meeting your billables. Here's your first warning, here's your second. See you later." If that's the case, perhaps that's not really the firm that you want to be working at anyways. And perhaps they've done you a favor. Because each firm has such a different culture, and you really have to find the one that's going to align most with your values. And if your values align with the one, two, three warning you're out, great, there's lots of places for you. And if your values align with, "Can you please offer me some flexibility during this significantly difficult time? I'm a very good employee, and these are the history that we have together." Nine times out of 10, your employer is going to accommodate your request as long as it's reasonable.
Charlene Theodore:
Yeah. I think it's so important to keep putting those messages out there through whether it's via this podcast, your podcast, every opportunity to let people know that you should be having those conversations. And not only is it an opportunity to make your own personal situation better and manage your workload and personal life. It's kind of a check-in in terms of is this where I need to be, right? Is this employer aligned with what I need in order to have a happy, successful, personal, and professional life?
Catherine Shearer:
Absolutely.
Charlene Theodore:
We talked a little bit about younger lawyers and the fact that things are changing. Based on the people that you've talked to and the work that you've done with the Happy Lawyer and the podcast, do you think that up and coming lawyers are placing more emphasis on happiness or wellness when deciding on a career? And if so, what effect do you think that will have on the profession? When we're looking around 10, 20 years from now, will the professional actually look different if they are?
Catherine Shearer:
Absolutely, I really do think that people are starting to place a much larger emphasis on their own wellbeing and rejecting the traditional idea of what it is to work in private practice or in law in general. And changes we are seeing reflected on the increased number of women who are going out on their own, starting their own firms. Because we know historically that only 14% of solo practitioners are women. So that's starting to change.
Catherine Shearer:
And we're starting to see a different landscape where if you are placing more emphasis on your own health and wellbeing and finding a career that aligns with your values, the traditional model has to change. Because if we're all starting to get on board with that, then that traditional model will just kind of phase out. And that's what we can hope for, right? Changes in the right direction to help some of these issues such as attrition and the mental health and addiction issues that we see within firms and within the profession.
Charlene Theodore:
One more question for you, Catherine. What is one thing ... I'm going to give you a crystal ball. A crystal ball or a magic wand. What is one thing about the typical legal workplace that we know works for a lot of people, but certainly doesn't work for everybody? What is one thing about the typical legal workplace you hope will be just complete history 10 years from now?
Catherine Shearer:
The billable hour.
Charlene Theodore:
Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I guess I get you, because it really is the antithesis of the flexibility that you described that is so necessary for people to be able to navigate their way through their careers and really be successful and good contributors. Be good to themselves, and also great contributors to their firm or legal workplace. We've been talking about it for a long time, and I look forward to seeing what will become of it, and some of the other changes that we're going to have to make as a profession as a result of the fact that we're all rethinking how we work now during this pandemic. So maybe we will get together in 10 years and have a good conversation about what's changed and what hasn't.
Catherine Shearer:
Yes, absolutely. I say that because I know from firsthand experience that the billable hour is not fun. But also, every single podcast guest that has joined me has had some issue with the billable hour. And I can appreciate that. I work on contingency. So it's less of an issue for me. And I think that creates a little bit more freedom, because I'm not chained to exactly how many hours per day, but rather overall bigger picture. And the billable hour is something that has held a lot of people back in the profession, and just the stress of it, and the timing, and the docketing, and everything that it associates.
Catherine Shearer:
What the metric is that replaces the billable hour, I don't know. I do know block fees are becoming more and more widely used. And that seems to be working in some practices. And it gives clients a little bit more assurance on what their legal bills are going to be. But at the end of the day, it is something that will be difficult to replace. So I'm always interested in hearing from people that have either done away with it or are phasing it out. Or adding other things as metrics, especially for associates in terms of their targets.
Charlene Theodore:
The conversation, I'm glad that you acknowledge and I do too that it's a difficult one. It's easy to say let's do away with the billable hour. But I think it's going to take some hard work and long conversation about what replaces it. And I know you'll be continuing those conversations on your podcast, and we'll certainly be engaging those conversations on ours.
Charlene Theodore:
It was such a pleasure to talk to you today, Catherine. I think that what I like about what you were doing and what you're contributing to the profession is that you started of course the Happy Lawyer and the Happy Lawyer podcast to really shine a light on the very strong connection between mental health, and wellness, and attrition in the legal profession. And I think you're one of the people that really got the conversation started. And I love that the conversation that the Happy Lawyer has expanded from mental health to all the things that contribute to mental health maybe not becoming an issue in the first place. So thank you. It's just been great to have you here, and I'm looking forward to chatting with you again soon.
Catherine Shearer:
Thank you so much. It was an absolute honor to be here with you today. And I agree, I am looking forward to our future conversations.
Charlene Theodore:
Well, think if there's one thing we can take to heart from this episode, it's that a happy lawyer is above all one who prioritizes wellness and takes care of their mental and physical health. I hope everyone listening, especially those regularly tackling fraught issues and advocating for clients in great turmoil well take heed of Catherine's advice to maintain healthy boundaries, clear expectations, and consistent client communications, and seek out counseling or treatment for themselves or their clients as needed. Good employers also care about the health and wellbeing of the lawyers who work for them. For practical reasons of productivity, profitability, and retention, but also for the very human reason that none of us would like to think members of our teams are struggling needlessly or suffering in silence.
Charlene Theodore:
So how can workplace leaders tackle the ever important wellness component of work that works? Recognizing that every employee is different, employers must first create a culture where staff feel accepted and safe enough to disclose the issues they're struggling with so tailored accommodations can be made. Then, include them in the conversation about how to address their particular challenge. Because there is no one-size-fits-all approach to employee wellbeing, employers must be prepared to be flexible to arrive at the right accommodation or support.
Charlene Theodore:
Keep in mind that COVID continues to exacerbate caretaking challenges, particularly for parents and lawyers who have elderly relatives living with them. Find out what will help them through this period. Whether it's reduced hours and alternative work schedule, or just freedom from the fear that there'll be ousted if they don't make their billing targets. Do this or risk losing legal talent altogether.
Charlene Theodore:
New lawyers, most especially those new lawyers who are being onboarded in a virtual environment are prone to feeling disconnected, isolated, or just ill-equipped in a way that magnifies stress. Make sure that mentorship, formal and informal is taking place early on. To aid in the learning process, but also to help identify what that particular new employee might need to contribute fully and thrive in the workplace.
Charlene Theodore:
Now adaptability doesn't preclude planning. Leaders at the executive level should be determining how they'll deal with situations like accommodations, like flex schedules, like parental leave, and support employees before issues arise or undue stress sets in.
Charlene Theodore:
Now, we all know it's difficult to do away with the billable hour without a better model to replace it with. But one sure way to mitigate the stress brought about by that traditional model is to add in other performance metrics, especially where newer associates are concerned. One thing that resonated with me throughout this discussion is that as and employers who want to promote healthy lawyers and workplaces, we need to expand our vision of what a legal career and success within our profession looks like. There's no single prescribed path or approach to practice. The sooner we allow ourselves the freedom to explore the detours, dips, and roads less traveled, to find the perhaps zigzag path that aligns with our own values, interests, and aptitudes, the happier we'll all be.
Charlene Theodore:
You can find both the Ontario Bar Association and me your host Charlene Theodore on LinkedIn and on Twitter. Let's keep this conversation going.